Camaro Zone Forums banner

Can't turn the key....Off

14K views 15 replies 4 participants last post by  Flood136  
#1 ·
Let me start with, I've been having one problem after another with my 02 Firebird V6 and have come to this forum for a lot of research and answers. Now it's time to Post.

I was driving home yesterday and had to make a quick stop. My car wouldn't turn off though. The ignition was locked in the run position. I know there's an interlock so I thought I'd look at that when I got home. Then I noticed the signals (left and right) weren't working... and the blower fan for the heat... so I started fidgeting and noticed the wipers and rear defrost aren't working either. Now I worried I won't make it home, but at least the radio was working to keep me entertainted. I left the car running in the street to move my other car out of the drive and when I came back and pulled the ign fuse to kill the motor I noticed the coolant was boiling.... cooling fans must have not been working. Arrrg.

I checked all fuses (that I could find under the hood and in the pass comp) and they're all good. I tried restarting it and the key will move to "start" and back to "run", but that's it.

How is this all linked????????
 
#2 · (Edited)
#3 · (Edited)
... I was driving home yesterday and had to make a quick stop ...
It's a long shot, but I'd reset the computer by disconnecting the Neg batery term for 10 seconds (with the car NOT running). Just about everything is controlled by relays that interact through the BCM and ECM's.

Doesn't cost a thing and just might help.

Many newre cars have a 'collision' switch. Kills the fuel pump and turns off the Ign in an accident. The hard braking may have tripped the switch.
 
#4 ·
How is resetting the PCM going to make a key turn that is mechanically stuck in Start and Run?
The key will not turn, as if the car is still in gear.

Another thought, did you push the little button in on the ignition switch? (if they still had them on 2002?)
 
#5 ·
How is resetting the PCM going to make a key turn that is mechanically stuck in Start and Run?
The key will not turn, as if the car is still in gear.

Another thought, did you push the little button in on the ignition switch? (if they still had them on 2002?)
1 question for you ... What operates the selenoid attached to the shift lockout? Electricity .... which he DOESN'T have inside the car. SOMETHING has turned off ALL the power circuits.

I said it was a long shot but worth a try.
 
#7 ·
If you have to step on the brake to shift into a 'drive' gear, there's a selenoid that locks the lever in the 'park' position. Stepping on the break energizes the selenoid and releases the shift lever. The cable attached to the shift lever runs up to the steering column and the lockout that keeps you from turning the key to the lock position without the lever being in the 'park' position.

Now think about it .. the car is running, meaning that the Ign 1 and Ign 2 circuits have power to it. Only thing that works is the radio. The only items on the radio fuse is the radio and part of the BCM, which applies the run signal to the Ign and fuel pump relays. Continuing on, this means the BCM must be receiving voltage through the switch.

Since most circuits are controlled by relays and all the fuses are good .... something is not turning on the relays .... Perhaps a 'master relay' that once tripped must be reset for the car to run. Toyota used to have them in the trunk on the left side with a big red push button.
 
#8 ·
The cable attached to the shift lever runs up to the steering column and the lockout that keeps you from turning the key to the lock position without the lever being in the 'park' position.
That's the one I said to check, if it is in Park and the key won't turn I'm thinking that could bethe culprit.
Also, ignition switches fail in different ways.
Some won't spin the starter, some don't turn on accessories.
If it came apart inside it could be jammed, preventing the key from being rotated to off.
 
#10 ·
the what? my 96 doesn't have one. maybe its a v8 thing
On the ignition switch, there is a button in front of where the key goes in that you have to push in with your thumb, in order to turn the key to off.
 
#11 ·
I can understand your reasoning, but I feel the key here is the radio works. Normally, the radio works with the ign in the Run and Acc position. In both positions both the wipers and power windows also work. We know the wipers don't. For a mechanical switch to fail so selectively just doesn't seem likely to me.

Guess we'll have to wait to see what Flood136 comes up with. Sure hope he doesn't have to pull the steering column to replace the switch.
 
#12 ·
I can understand your reasoning, but I feel the key here is the radio works. Normally, the radio works with the ign in the Run and Acc position.
This is where it gets weird because the radio runs on retained accessory power but other accessories don't. That tells me there is more than one circuit energized in the run position.
Also, when you turn it to start, accessories are shut off but you still have ignition.
They are multi function multi circuit switches. ( for lack of a better description )

Guess we'll have to wait to see what Flood136 comes up with. Sure hope he doesn't have to pull the steering column to replace the switch.
You don't have to, it is bolted to the outside of the column, under the dash.
Check the picture at the link I posted.
 
#13 ·
All he's got to do is pull the u-joint on the steering shaft and that column come right out.

I checked the switch on mine earlier and with only the top bolts removed and I was barely able to touch the switch. Concluded I'd have to remove the 3 nuts under the hood to get it down far enough to work on. If you're working on a lift and able to stand along side it might not be too bad to do it this way, but with my knees, I don't kneel if I don't have to.
 
#14 ·
Key stuck update

Ok, I'm still fighting with this. I appreciate all the comments on here. I have an interesting update that kinda splits this problem into two problems....I think. I've found that while driving (yes this is still my commuter, even though I have to pull a fuse to shut down and disconnect the battery to turn off all the accessories including d-t running lights) I've found that while driving, if I pull down on the steering column everything works! Except this new "pull" feature of my car still dosn't allow for the key to be turned to the off position.

So, now I think I have electrical issues on the steering column AND, Something is still keeping the key stuck. I've followed all the comments on here and agree with many of them. (I don't have the button near the key thing though) I see the solenoid near the shifter that is the park release. That is working properly. Then there's the shift cable, and then the other manual cable that links the shifter to the ignition switch on the column. Everything I can tell is that this last cable only prevents the electrical switch from entering the "start" position unless you're in park.

My biggest problem is the key stuck. I can figure out the electrical intermittantcy later. The stuck key is either a mechanical failure in the ignition lock cylinder or some sort of interlock that I don't understand yet. This is my current question....

Does anyone know how the key is prevented from turning of in a normal situation when the car is in drive? Is it electrical or mechanical.

I have the whole steering column out. not too big a deal. and I was going to replace the ignition switch and the ignition lock. However, I can figure out how to get to the lock. I can't get the column apart to removce the cylinder.

Still looking for help. ... I wich I had an NA01-85ADC-2...

Thanks guys.
I have the steering column out. I
 
#15 ·
Start by finding a diagram of the steering column.

Air bag comes off, then the wheel. Next is the lock plate. They say to use a special tool to depress the spring loaded plate. Not necessary but sure does make getting that spring clip off easier.

Once the lock plate is off, you'll be able to see how the turn signal switch is mounted. After that ... every thing is right there.
 
#16 ·
Key is out

Thanks for that last post about gaining access to the lock cylinder. I saw that spring lock clip keeping the steering lock plate in place, but I couldn't figure out how to remove it, so I guess I was avoiding it. Once you posted that last comment, I focused my attention to removing that clip and FINALLY got it. (oh, and reinstallation was an even tougher challenge that required a third hand while I was pushing down on the spring loaded steering lock plate).

Resolution... The ignition lock cylinder was the problem. I replaced that with a new one from AZ wich comes with new key blanks without the computer chip insert. You are then required to go to a dealer who will charge you $100 or more to cut a duplicate with a new chip and reprogram the car to start with this new code. Skip that, I just punched the plastic insert from the old key, drilled a matching hole in the new key and inserted the old chip. Job complete. Removing the old key from the old cylinder was a task that infolved a dremel, a screw driver and a big hammer.

In the end I think that chip insert might have been the culpret keeping the key from turning in the ignition. It was not seated in the old key fully when i finally got it out of the old, now destroyed, cylinder. OR, it might have just been moved out of place while hacking away at the old cylinder leaving the problem as just the cylinder ceased.

Lastly, The electrical issues I was having were in fact a seperate problem and durring the time troubleshooting the stuck key, removing and reinstalling the steering column, I discovered one of the large disconnects for electrical on the column was loose and almost unpluged.

Now I just have to finish putting the interior back together and try to mend my broken inthusiasm about owning a memory of Pontiac.